Bill and Brian are charmed by "music business big wig" Lisa Grosso (you can check out her PR outfit, Effective Immediately, at ei-pr.com) as we talk about one of The National's long list of critically acclaimed albums, Boxer (2007, Beggar's Banquet). Despite the band's affinity for complex rhythms and ornate orchestration, we discuss how The National stays rooted in rock and roll. Obtuse lyrics and a gravelly baritone vocal are also analyzed in depth as we listen to the album one song at a time.